The Dance of Dialogue

The p_eh Factor

“Seeking balance in a polarized world”

October 26, 2025

As I was out walking the other day contemplating the events of the past weeks, my thoughts jumped to the death of Charlie Kirk and the ensuing accolades and debate.  I was thinking about what is taking place in our country.  The hostility.  The name calling.  The lack of dialogue.  The social distancing.  And then, out of the blue, a familiar square dance tune leapt into my head.  It goes like this:”

Oh Johnny, Oh Johnny, Oh

Well, you all join hands and you circle the ring

Stop! Where you are give your honey a swing.

Swing that little girl behind you.

Swing your own if you have found that she’s not flown.

You al-le-mand left with your cor-ner gal,

Do-si-do your own.

Then you all promenade with the sweet corner maid, singing

Oh Johnny, Oh Johnny, Oh. 

After dancing through this song four times or so, you end up with your original partner after having danced with the other three in your group of eight. 

Of course, as I walked and sang this song, I switched the ending words from “Oh Johnny, Oh Johnny…” to “Oh Charlie, Oh Charlie…”  My mind does that sometimes.  Then, it struck me.  When this song is sung and followed at a square dance you may dance with a multitude of people from a wide variety of ages, background and sometimes nationalities, and you have a good time.  The focus of the event is not on the things that might divide us, i.e., nationality, religion, social standing, history, etc., but on the directions of the “Caller” who is leading the dance.  When I have participated, I have had to stay focused on the “Caller” so I know what to do and where to go.  In the process I have usually had fun and even met some knew friends.  In a simplified way, this represents what we need as a nation.

A few weeks back now, Charlie Kirk, a passionate young man who felt called to engage the younger portion of our culture with a respectful but confrontational style of dialogue was murdered.  He was involved in a type of square dance.  He entered the ring of dialogue, accepted questions from people of a wide variety of experiences and beliefs.  He ‘do-si-do’d’ with Christians, Muslims, and atheists.  He had dialogue with those of the LGBTQ+ community, Wiccans, Pagans, Democrats, Republicans and others.  He listened to their statements/ questions/accusations and then responded with questions of his own and as many facts as he could muster to support his position. 

As Charlie participated in the dialogue, the dance, he attempted to listen to the “Caller” of his life, Jesus Christ.  I truly believe he attempted to “Love the Lord his God with all his heart, soul, mind and strength.”  I truly believe he was attempting to “Love his neighbor as he would want to be loved.”  He would speak the truth as he had come to believe it at this point in time.  People came to participate in this dance of dialogue.  Some came because they were seekers.  Some came to see the show.  Some came to defend their chosen lifestyle.  Some came to attempt to prove him wrong.  Charlie came to do the dialogue dance. 

As happens with all such dialogue dances, after the event was over, people went back to their homes.  Sometimes people were moved closer to his position.  Sometimes their own beliefs became more set in stone.  Often they went home with questions they many have never considered.  They took the dialogue dance with them in one fashion or another.  Ultimately only the “Caller” knows the future direction of that person’s path. 

I have listened to some of the YouTube videos of some of those events.  There are many things that Charlie said with which I agree.  There are some with which I don’t.  From my experiences of speaking to groups of people I assume most people do the same…agree and disagree with statements made by others.  I certainly would have delivered the message in a different style, with a different demeanor, but I applaud him for taking his faith and his life and placing it in the caldron of contemporary society.  This dance of dialogue needs to continue. 

 At the memorial service held for Charlie in Glendale, Arizona, Charlie’s wife, Erika, spoke.  Part of what Erika said showed that she and Charlie were listening to the same “Caller” for how to live.  In a powerful moment she said that she forgave the young man who killed her husband and the father of their two children just like Jesus did on the cross and Charlie would have done.  It is as Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount, he said,

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven… For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?  And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others?  Do not even the Gentiles do the same?  You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.    Matthew 5:43-48  (English Standard Version)

Tragically, when our President spoke at the memorial service, he presented a different message and I believe in doing so he revealed that he follows a different “Caller” in his elected office.  The quote as reported on numerous media sites as well as recorded on videos was this:

“He did not hate his opponents. He wanted the best for them.  That’s where I disagreed with Charlie.  I hate my opponent, and I don’t want the best for them.  I’m sorry.  I am sorry Erika.” 

As you look at President Trump’s behavior you can see who he defines as his “opponent.” 

Democrats?  Illegal immigrants?  Someone who brought legal charges against me?  Universities that may have different goals than me?  News outlets that have said something disrespectful about me?  Drug cartels?  Nations that have taken advantage of us in trade?  Others.  Wikipedia gives this definition of hatred:

Hatred or hate is an intense negative emotional response towards certain people, things or ideas, usually related to opposition or revulsion toward something. Hatred is often associated with intense feelings of anger, contempt, and disgust. Hatred is sometimes seen as the opposite of love.

Hatred when coupled with power (my last post on violence in our society) leads to tragic ends.  It blinds the person with power to the lasting consequences of their actions (sometimes legal almost always relational).  It injures the object of that hatred, sometimes by ending their life.  It ends the dance of dialogue and creates a hostile environment that pits neighbor against neighbor, parents against child, divides friends and sometimes ends marriages.  When coming from the top down, this hatred of a perceived “opponent” bleeds into our life as a nation.  There is no dance.  There is no dialogue.  There seems to be no “wanting of the best for them.” 

To broaden this a bit, I would also have to say that our national leaders on the other side of the aisle are not lily white.  Even before Mr. Trump took office in 2017 they were strategizing how to sabotage his agenda and even impeach him.  Even though not defined as such there was hatred of their opponent.  There was no dialogue.  How tragic.  We all suffer from this division. 

I cannot define who the “Caller” is to which our politicians listen (There are many who believe they can identify the source) but I believe that “Caller” is not the same as Charlie and Erika’s.  To listen to the “Caller” who promotes hatred of their opponent and then calls others to do the same is destructive to our society.  Tragically, when this vitriol permeates our leadership it bleeds over into our communities, no, not to everyone, but many, especially the emotionally unstable. 

So, what are we to do? 

1.  If you are filled with hate, confess you sin and ask God to forgive you.  Remember, when Jesus said, “God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son,…” that included the other person as well as yourself.  Jesus died on the cross for them as well as for you.

2.  Ask the Lord to fill you with love, His love.  To do this you must open yourself to the work of the Holy Spirit for love is the first of the characters traits the Holy Spirit produces in us (Galatians 5:22-23).

3.  Pray for your leadership at all levels in your life (1Timothy 2:1-6).  Remember who were the leaders of the Roman Empire when Paul gave this instruction.  Remember what those leaders ultimately did to him.

4.  Create a way to meet with others with whom you may not agree.  As Michael Smerconish says, “Mingle.”  Listen to what they are saying.  Ask questions to clarify when you hear something with which you may not agree.  Ask if you might share what you believe. 

A pastor friend of mine use to encounter atheists from time to time.  When they discovered he

was a pastor and blast him for his faith, he would ask, “Would you tell me about the god in whom you do not believe.”  They were more than happy to do so.  He listened.  He would then most often reply, “You know, I don’t believe in that god either.  May I tell you about the God in whom I do believe?”  A wonderful example of the Dance of Dialogue.

I am sure there are many other things we can do but this is a good start.  Add yours to this list.  Maybe, by doing some of these simple things, we can once again listen to the “Caller” who loves us all and wants us to enjoy the dance of dialogue. 

May the Lord be with you.

Paul